What does training for spending weeks deep underground teach you about the rest of life?

Katie Graham is a passionate cave and canyon explorer who discovered Canada’s deepest and second deepest caves. This feat was showcased in the 2023 documentary film “Subterranean.”

Katie is a fellow of the Royal Canadian Geographic Society and president of the Alberta Speleological Society. As a former accountant, she left her corporate gig to spend more time underground.

We talk about:

• Is it caving, or spelunking?
• The pressure of working deep underground, especially with a film crew
• Breaking her leg days deep in the cave and self-evacuating for 3 days
• Hauling tons of heavy gear for weeks just to spend minutes in a cave section
• The mundane monotony of training for expeditions
• Finding balance between celebrating milestones and the training grind
• The mental game of cave diving
• Burning out with a passion and how to add fun back into it
• The scary days that kick your ass are the ones that matter most
• Why Katie started professional accounting and why she later quit
• The nuance of her team being kicked out of a village on a caving trip to Mexico
• The effects of living underground for weeks and manipulating your own circadian rhythm
• Making cool cave suits!

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love How Sunny Stroeer Transformed Her Corporate Skills to Advance Gender Equity in the Outdoors and Combining Art Forms and Identities with Drag Raptress Samuel Thrower, AKA Slutashia

Connect with Katie:

• Subterranean Film
• Katie on Instagram

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

1 - Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces! ⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.

2 - Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

3 - Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

4 - Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

What does it mean to uncage your own soul and find vitality, even in challenging periods of life?

John Waller is an award-winning filmmaker, speaker, and adventurer. After founding the video production company Uncage the Soul in 2004, he dedicated his career to capturing wild and serene landscapes, as well as the stories of the people who call them home.

In 2020, John was diagnosed with stage 4 colorectal cancer. This inspired him to pursue a life filled with purpose, vitality, and a deeper appreciation for the natural spaces he has long admired.

We talk about:

• How award-winning Uncage the Soul productions came to life
• Traveling the world after college and gaining comfort in the unknown and getting a “social education”
• Dedicating 16 years of life to his company while wearing all the hats
• The decision to end Uncage the Soul towards the start of COVID-19 pandemic and trying to personally separate himself from his business
• Going to a doctor after 10 years and learning he has terminal cancer
• The emotions and shifts that come with a life-changing diagnosis and how John’s experience as a producer helped him find support
• Releasing an aversion to accepting help from others
• Using psychedelics as a way to access a deeper side of himself
• Learning to swim with instead of against the current of life
• What John is afraid of as he approaches the end of his life
• Mending the Line: Uncage’s film about fly-fisher Frank Moore

PSST! If you like this episode, did you know we have over 30 other conversations with people who have lived big lives and made trade-offs to pursue their passions?

We've spoken with a former Hollywood star who moved to Kentucky to open a preschool, an adventurer who lost a toe while guiding on Mount Rainier, a drag queen who found empowerment by embracing an alter ego, and a pro ice climber who continues to adventure as a mom of twins. Find all episodes at www.fortheloveofpod.com/episodes.

Explore John's work:

• Uncage the Soul Productions

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

1 - Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces! ⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.

2 - Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

3 - Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

4 - Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

Marina Legree has an educational background in international affairs and public policy and has spent over two decades living around the world and working with international aid agencies.

In 2015, she founded the nonprofit Ascend Athletics, which redefines opportunity for women in Afghanistan and Pakistan through mountaineering based leadership training and community service.

We talk about:

• Marina being assigned to work in Afghanistan starting in 2005 and the country becoming a home for her
• A crash course in modern politics of Afghanistan and the 2021 Taliban offensive
• The assumptions people made about an American woman in her 20’s living in Afghanistan (including people in the US military thinking that she was a spy)
• Language to examine in politics: “third world,” “expat” vs. “immigrant”, and Afghans aren’t Arabs
• Living with restrictions on women’s movement and outdoor time, and how that led Marina to start Ascend Athletics
• Working within the parameters of local culture and religion to encourage girls in the mountains
• Resettling 134 Afghans around the world after the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in 2021 (which was antithetical to Ascend’s mission but an ask of the girls in the program)
• Feeling more unsafe living in DC or working with the US Army than after the Taliban gained power in Afghanistan
• Living in Maine and having a family while leading international work
• Why the world needs more women in government and international leadership

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love Why Erika Vikander is Fighting for Gender Equality in Freeride Snowboarding and Women’s Sports and How Living Seasonally and Wild Entrepreneurship Led Tamara Jacobi to Run a Mexican Jungle Eco Lodge

Connect with Marina and Ascend Athletics:

• https://ascendathletics.org/
• https://www.instagram.com/ascendathleticsngo

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

1 - Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces! ⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.

2 - Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

3 - Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

4 - Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

When you watch epic ski films, do you ever wonder about the person behind the camera?

Bjarne Salén is an adventure documentary filmmaker, photographer and entrepreneur originally from Sweden and currently living in Hood River, OR. Over the past 15 years, he’s traveled the globe to create documentaries, short films, and photographic works.

Bjarne has directed and produced films for brands like Salomon, Oakley, Patagonia, and the North Face. In 2021, Bjarne founded Bjarne Builds, a van conversion business that has since evolved into creating tiny homes and now a new signature line. He continues to share stories from around the world through his work, including The Fifty Project ski series.

We talk about:

• The evolution of Bjarne’s adventure filmmaking over the decades from stoke to story
• The realities of combining passions in skiing and film, when 90% of skiing is for work
• Being the talent vs. filming the talent, when both roles require elite athleticism
• The Fifty Project with Cody Townsend and why Bjarne doesn’t give a sh!t about 50 ski lines
• The trade-offs of working expeditions: bad weather after long travel, missing loved ones, and managing unpredictable money
• How Bjarne tries to turn his brain off from thinking about work and being present instead
• What you need to accept around time and effort if you want to be an adventure filmmaker
• Bjarne’s van conversion business pivots
• Not being able to get funding for an incredible story
• Bjarne’s views on using social media as a creative
• The climate crisis and its effects on The Fifty ski lines
• Risk management and facing death in the mountains

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love Why Kayaker and Filmmaker Rush Sturges is Rethinking Work-Life Balance.

Connect with Bjarne:

• https://instagram.com/bjarnesalen

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

1 - Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces! ⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.

2 - Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

3 - Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

4 - Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

This man has played many a serial killer on TV, but he's way more down to earth than his characters may appear.

Ryan Devlin is an entrepreneur, rock climber, rad dad, and actor best known for his roles on shows like Veronica Mars and Grey's Anatomy. In his words, he’s “just trying to fit it all in.”

He's also the host of The Struggle Climbing Show, one of the most popular rock climbing podcasts, where he explores the intersections of climbing and personal growth.

We talk about:

• Why Ryan is fascinated with “the struggle” and how it shapes his popular podcast
• When Ryan knows it’s time to shake it up and make a pivot in life
• Countering failure by embracing a beginner’s mindset
• The arrival fallacy that so many humans face
• Mental vs. physical challenges of outdoor adventures (running 100 miles or sending a 5.15)
• The difference between being an actor and a celebrity
• Moving from Hollywood to Kentucky and opening a forest school
• Acting is listening (even if Ryan tends to play creepy murderers on TV)
• Ryan’s tools for keeping all the plates spinning in a packed life
• The One Line a Day Journal Ryan got Angie and Jeni hooked on

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love these:

How to be an Imperfect Advocate and Pursue Outdoor Adventures in a Changing Climate with Alpinist Graham Zimmerman

Managing Expectations in a High Pressure Academic Environment with Dr. Hannah Prather

Connect with Ryan:

• https://instagram.com/thestruggleclimbingshow
• https://www.instagram.com/ryandevlinoutside
• https://www.youtube.com/@thestruggleclimbingshow
• https://www.thestruggleclimbingshow.com

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

1 - Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces! ⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.

2 - Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

3 - Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

4 - Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

Ever get the urge to throw all your stuff in an Astrovan and leave your corporate job for good?

Sunny Stroeer is a record setting adventure athlete and entrepreneur known for her feats in extreme sports and her work in outdoor adventure media. She runs two adventure guiding services and the nonprofit Summit Scholarship Foundation.

Sunny combines her corporate career background and Harvard MBA with her current work as an athlete and storyteller to be an advocate for gender equity in the outdoors.

We talk about:

• Spending 5 years at Harvard after getting rejected at first
• Realizing that she needed far more adventure time than her corporate work could allow
• A 43 hour-long workday, and what burnout felt like to Sunny
• The changing value of time and money when you shake up your work
• Adulting is real. (Sad!) We have to say no to incredible opportunities sometimes.
• Feeling both angry at and grateful for an employer at the same time
• Running two guiding services and a nonprofit on top of her own adventures
• Reciprocity in scholarships: They’re not just for winning recipients
• Sexism and microaggressions on Aconcagua
• Balancing competition with collaboration for Fastest Known Times
• Body image when your body is a tool for adventure
• Finding harmony with her husband in a packed life
• The realities of athlete sponsorship and income
• The Iditarod Invitational: being the first woman to complete the 1,000 mile race on skis

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love these:

Why Erika Vikander is Fighting for Gender Equality in Freeride Snowboarding and Women’s Sports

What Kayaking and Paddleboarding Taught Anna Levesque about Fear, Confidence, and Mental Agility

The Trade-offs of Seasonal Work, Shifting Identities, and Kite Skiing Across Greenland with Katie Crafts

Connect with Sunny:

Sunny on Instagram: instagram.com/sstroeer

Sunny’s website: www.sunnystroeer.com

The Summit Scholarship Foundation on the web www.summitscholarship.org and on Instagram: instagram.com/summitscholarshipfoundation

AWExpeditions on the web www.awexpeditions.org and on IG instagram.com/awexpeditions

Dreamland Safari Tours on the web www.dreamlandtours.net and on IG instagram.com/dreamlandsafari

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

-Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces!

-Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

-Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕

Would you take a job that has you stand in a fiery pit that’s been burning for decades in the Turkmenistan desert, rig a rope across a boiling lake, and put yourself in the middle of Tornado Alley?

George didn’t take the job– he made it, and he took his camera with him.

George Kourounis is a National Geographic Explorer, storm chaser, science communicator, and host of the Angry Planet TV series. He's been to all seven continents and over 80 countries to photograph some of Mother Nature's most elusive and dangerous phenomena.

We talk about:

-The logistics of being ready to cross the world at a moment’s notice

-Funding big adventures and relying on Mother Nature to make a living

-How George broke into media and started the Angry Planet TV series

-Why George hates the words “influencer” and “content” and the impact of technology on the news cycle and media

-Identifying as a nature junkie but not an adrenaline junkie

-The Gateway to Hell expedition with a Guinness World Record of being the first person to set foot at the bottom of this burning pit of gas

-Capturing disasters that blur the line between natural and human influence

-The FOMO of missing a big storm or event and the pressure to create media for others to enjoy or learn from

-When your work is less of a job and more of a lifestyle

-A scary bat experience where George’s inner organs could’ve turned to Jello (oopsie)

-The essence of exploration in 3 words

PSST! If you like this episode, you’ll love this one: How to be an Imperfect Advocate and Pursue Outdoor Adventures in a Changing Climate with Alpinist Graham Zimmerman

Connect with George:

-George on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/george_kourounis

-George's website: http://www.stormchaser.ca/

👋Like the show? Share the stoke!:

-Your 5-star ratings and reviews make a huge difference, both for the future of the show and the smiles on our faces!

-Follow @for.the.love.of.podcast and tag us in a post or Story! (https://instagram.com/for.the.love.of.podcast)

-Connect with Angie on Instagram (https://instagram.com/angvswild) and Jeni on Instagram (https://instagram.com/jenistembridge).

Right now, text one friend who would like For The Love Of.

⭐Please rate and review For The Love Of on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify

Shout-Outs:

-Music: The King of Sandwich Island by Shut-ins

-Thank you to The Ruins, the best wedding venue in Oregon, for supporting the show.

For full show notes and more: https://fortheloveofpod.com

💕