Episode 17 - Noticing the Water We Swim In with Katy Lumsden Katy is a seasoned practitioner in organisational behaviour, organisational development, and human resources, with extensive leadership experience across the public sector in Ireland, as well as in church and trade union environments. Her work is driven by a passion for learning and empowerment through self-inquiry, underpinned by a values-led approach. Holding an MBS in Organisational Development, Organisational Behaviour, and Leadership, Katy has designed and delivered programmes for children and young people, focusing on leadership, followership, and culture. A regular speaker, podcast guest, and co-author of Soul Excellence Publishing’s best-selling leadership book, The X-Factor: Spiritual Secrets Behind Successful Executives and Entrepreneurs, Katy frequently shares her insights on leadership, systems, and culture through social media. Before transitioning into organisational development, Katy trained and practised in Visual Communications. In 2004, she was awarded Craft Membership of the Society of Heraldic Arts, joining an exclusive group of fewer than 50 artists worldwide to have earned this distinction. Katy’s career path has been far from linear, but it has always been guided by her personal values of excellence, professionalism, fairness, courage, and growth. She continually seeks opportunities to align her work with these principles, carving out a distinctive and impactful professional journey. But first and foremost, Katy is a mum to an inspiring and astonishing young woman, who is her breath after breath. Her daughter’s hope, joie de vivre, and bold assumptions cast a searchlight across generations of systemic injustice - forces vested in keeping her small, quiet, and unconfronting simply because she is female. What we talk about: 1:28 – How Michelle and Katy Connected - Katy shares how a LinkedIn post about Good Girl Deprogramming led to her starting a reading group for the book. 5:01 – The Impact of Good Girl Deprogramming - Katy discusses her eye-opening experience with the book, particularly Biderman’s Chart of Coercion and its application to systemic patriarchy. 7:33 – The Noticing Effect - How the book changed Katy’s perspective on societal norms, influencing her own behaviour and those around her. 8:46 – Changing the World - They discuss how small, collective changes can lead to systemic shifts. 9:18 – Navigating Difficult News and Conversations - Katy shares a personal story of processing difficult news stories and finding solace in her Good Girl Gang. 13:26 – Decoupling Patriarchy from Men - Exploring the idea that patriarchy is a system harming everyone and the importance of engaging men in allyship. 15:16 – The Workplace and Systemic Change - Practical examples of workplace barriers for women, from ill-fitting chairs to inaccessible spaces, and how these reflect deeper systemic issues. 20:28 – The Problem with “Quick Fix” Solutions - Critiquing the oversimplified solutions often marketed to women and the need for systemic change instead of individual fixes. 26:05 – Internalised Misogyny and Self-Policing - Katy reflects on how women are conditioned to self-police and judge one another under systemic patriarchy. 28:44 – Katy’s Provocation for Listeners 32:47 – Building a Good Girl Gang - Katy shares her advice for forming supportive groups to navigate and discuss Good Girl Deprogramming. Follow Katy on social media: Website - https://www.knownoboundsleadership.com/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katy-lumsden-noisy-introvert/ Follow Michelle on social media: Website - https://www.michelleminnikin.com/ Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mminnikin/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/goodgirldeprogramming TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleminnikin If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with friends!
