Product managers are often used to setting goals and going after them with a single-minded focus, achieving success by pushing for results. If they approach the job like a mechanic—fixing, controlling, and managing tasks—they risk stifling innovation and limiting their team’s potential. Without realizing it, managers can create an environment that suppresses growth. John Cutler, a seasoned product manager and researcher, believes that by adopting a service-oriented mindset, managers can instead empower their teams, foster growth, and ultimately drive better results for both the product and the people.

John Cutler is the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses.

In this episode, Dart and John discuss:
- Balancing variety, complexity, and focus in design
- Horizontal vs. vertical products
- A service design mindset for managers
- The traits of a great product manager
- 3 major challenges that product managers face in software
- Empathy and agency in management
- And other topics…

John Cutler is a seasoned product manager and user experience researcher. He excels at tackling complex problems and uncovering the "why" through qualitative and quantitative insights. Currently, John serves as the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses. Before joining Dotwork, he held pivotal roles, including Senior Director of Product Enablement at Toast and Head of Product Education at Amplitude, where he honed his expertise in product strategy and education.

Resources mentioned:
“How Capable Leaders Navigate Uncertainty and Ambiguity,” by John Cutler: https://cutlefish.substack.com/p/tbm-274-how-capable-leaders-navigate

Connect with John:
Substack: https://cutlefish.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcutler/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

An estimated 1 billion people switch jobs every year, and the war for talent continues. Leaders and HR teams keep using the same hiring strategies as the average employee tenure decreases year after year. Companies aren’t addressing the root issue: employees crave meaningful work, supportive colleagues, and growth opportunities. Unless companies transform their approach to employee satisfaction, they’ll keep losing their best people—something Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn believe we can prevent.

Ethan and Michael are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.

In this episode, Dart, Ethan, and Michael discuss:
- Major pushes and pulls driving job changes
- Jobs to Be Done theory applied to work and career transitions
- 4 Quests of job changes: why employees leave their jobs
- Progress vs. progression at work
- Experiences vs. features in job selection
- 9 activities that companies can do to ensure strong employee fit
- How to prototype and test potential career changes
- And other topics…

Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.

Ethan Bernstein is the Edward W. Conard Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. He specializes in the Organizational Behavior unit and focuses his research on the dynamics of workplace transparency, how organizational design impacts performance, and managing human capital. His work has been published in various academic journals and covered by The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Forbes, and Bloomberg, among others.

Michael Horn is an influential author, speaker, and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. He is the co-founder and a distinguished fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute for Disruptive Innovation, a non-profit think tank. His work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Harvard Business Review, and NBC.

Resources mentioned:
“Why Employees Quit,” by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, & Bob Moesta: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quit
Job Moves, by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, and Bob Moesta: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581
Choosing College, by Michael Horn: https://www.amazon.com/Choosing-College-Learning-Decisions-Throughout/dp/1119570115

Connect with Ethan & Michael:
www.jobmoves.com
Ethan’s Google Scholar https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jt4uBuUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
Ethan’s email - e@hbs.edu
www.michaelbhorn.com
Michael’s Substack: https://michaelbhorn.substack.com/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Moments before presenting at a large conference in Sydney, Gareth Flynn was confident in sharing his expertise on skills strategy. Suddenly, his friend Dart Lindsley tapped him on the shoulder and made a bold claim: skills strategies don’t work. Faced with the unsettling possibility that his expertise might be flawed, Gareth began a research journey to uncover the truth. By engaging with both critics and advocates, he gained a fresh perspective on when and how skills should (or shouldn’t) be prioritized in the workplace.

Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. He is the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia’s leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business.

In this episode, Dart and Gareth discuss:
- How companies approach skills — and when they fall short
- Company motivation for investing in skills strategies
- Insights from the critics of skills strategy
- The difference between skills and capabilities
- The taxonomy of skills
- How AI is grouping people into social classes
- Career drivers vs. life drivers
- And other topics…

Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. As the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia’s leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business, Gareth and his team have advised companies like GE, Philips, Australia Post, and Westpac, among others. Prior to founding TQSolutions, Gareth co-founded The Career Conversation, an early careers experience and engagement business whose client list includes companies like Bank of America and Deloitte.

Resources mentioned:
“Is the Juice Worth the Squeeze?” by Marc Effron: https://talentstrategygroup.com/is-the-juice-worth-the-squeeze/
Connect with Gareth:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethflynn

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.