The police have a duty to protect our right to protest while maintaining public safety. Too often they get the balance wrong. 

Edward Maguire  is a professor of criminology and criminal justice at Arizona State University and the author of a guidebook on policing protests safely. 

He talks to Cait about crowd psychology, the history of protest policing, and his advice for police who take on these challenging events. 

For background reading and a list of references, visit cantseethewood.com

Prof Muntingh is the Director of the Dullah Omar Institute, a human rights organisation based in Cape Town, South Africa.  He's been involved in criminal justice reform for three decades. We spoke about:

•  Wins and fails in African criminal justice 
• The cheapest way to cut crime
• Tackling torture in prisons

And even why a man was imprisoned for burying his cat. 

For background reading and a list of references, visit cantseethewood.com

Professor Mark Osler used to push for heavy sentences for narcotics trafficking as a federal prosecutor. Now he helps prisoners petition for clemency.  How's that for a plot twist? 

In this episode we discuss:
-  Whether the justice system can have an impact on drug use
- Why narcotics should be treated more like white collar crime
- The notion of compassionate prosecution.

For background reading and a list of references, visit cantseethewood.com