The Unthinkable is a new podcast series by Susie Ferguson, which opens the door on an issue that affects hundreds of families every year, and yet we struggle to speak about it.

Content warning: This podcast contains graphic descriptions that some people might find difficult.

Kate Gudsell and Sam Arcus were married in November 2015 and just a few weeks later discovered they were pregnant with their first child. After a textbook pregnancy, Kate went into labour and then things began to go awry.

In The Unthinkable, a five-part podcast series made and hosted by Susie Ferguson, Kate and Sam share their story of loss and grief but mainly it's a tale of love, the big, enduring love of parents for their child.

If you need to talk free call or text 1737 any time to speak to a trained counsellor.

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Kate Gudsell and Sam Arcus had a trouble-free pregnancy, but a thunderstorm was quite literally brewing as Kate went into labour. This is a very personal story of grief and loss, but most importantly, love.

Content warning: This podcast contains graphic descriptions that some people might find difficult.

Kate Gudsell and Sam Arcus were married in November 2015. Sam scrubbed up smart in a kilt as a nod to his heritage from the Shetland Islands, Kate was in a vintage dress by 1970s Hollywood designer Holly Harp. She had little white roses and rosemary in her hair, and it looked like her mothers' had been on her wedding day.

By the New Year, Kate was pregnant with their first child. A girl.

Wren was born on September 8 2016, in the middle of one of the worst thunderstorms of the year. "It was a freezing, freezing cold day," said Kate.

Wren was supposed to have been born at the birthing unit at Kenepuru Community Hospital in Porirua, but during labour the midwives struggled to find a heartbeat.

Kate was rushed to Wellington Hospital by ambulance. Sam had to follow in the car.

Wren was born at 2:41 in the afternoon. She didn't make a sound when she arrived and was quickly whisked off to the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) while Kate and Sam struggled to make sense of what had just happened.

"The baby comes out and you hear this wail of like, here I am. And not ever hearing that is the most devastating thing in the world," said Sam

Kate and Sam were only allowed fleeting touches of their beautiful wee daughter as doctors didn't want her to be stimulated.

On the fifth day, one of the doctors called Kate and Sam into a private room. "As soon as he shut the door, I knew," said Kate.

They were given the heart-breaking news that their daughter was unlikely to survive and made the gut-wrenching decision to switch off her life support.

Wren Sarah Thunderstorm Arcus lived for six days. A post-mortem revealed she had been starved of oxygen for between five to 20 minutes at some time during the birth.

Kate and Sam had to leave hospital without their first-born child.

"No one ever prepares you for what it might feel like to walk out the hospital without baby," said Kate.

If you need to talk, free call or text 1737 any time to speak to a trained counsellor.

For other support:

• Wheturangitia - https://wheturangitia.services.govt.nz/
• Sands - http://www.sands.org.nz/

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

Kate and Sam lost their beautiful baby girl, Wren just six days after she was born. Their grief is shared, but their experiences quite different. This episode covers the loss of a baby through a father's eyes.

Content warning: This podcast contains graphic descriptions that some people might find difficult.

When things began to go wrong during the birth of their baby girl, Kate Gudsell was rushed to hospital in an ambulance while Sam Arcus had to drive himself.

"I just remember screaming and praying the whole way," said Sam

Wren Sarah Thunderstorm Arcus lived for six days. "The greatest experience of my life was holding her," he said, "(And) the hardest experience."

One of the motivations for Kate to take part in this podcast was because she saw that there wasn't a lot of support for men.

"When Wren died all the official support networks, and unofficial, were really about how was I doing? And not really how was Sam doing?" she said.

Lucy and Karl Emson lost their baby girl, Harriet, after she was starved at oxygen at birth. Harriet lived for just 36 hours.

Karl found the loss particularly hard.

He felt a lot of the help was geared towards a woman who'd lost a child with less emphasis on how the dad might feel.

He said there's a very real possibility that his older daughter Clara is the only reason he's still alive.

Lucy and Karl have had two more beautiful daughters since Harriet - Eleanor and Madeleine.

Karl struggles a little with Western society's reaction to his grief.

"There's still that perception out there I suppose that men don't cry," he said, "Some of my happy memories of Harriet bring on tears. And that's okay."

He believes society is changing and those ideas are breaking down.

"One thing Harriet's done for me is put things in perspective," said Karl. And if people have a problem with him showing his emotion, "that's their problem".

Sam had given up his job and was planning to care for Wren. But without a baby to look after, he found himself at a loss once Kate returned to work. He turned to his love of sculpting metal.

"I wanted to make something that was strong and permanent and tangible," he said, "The idea was to make something out of steel. So it would rust. And it would change over time. That's one thing that I found, that I still find, really hard is that we never got to watch Wren grow or reach milestones or change and develop."

"She is the girl that made me a father. Six days changed my life. I'll never forget her."…

Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details