The Oath with Chuck Rosenberg

By: Chuck Rosenberg NBC News
  • Summary

  • Listen in on revealing and thoughtful conversations with fascinating men and women who took an oath to support and defend our Constitution and our nation – leaders in law enforcement, the military, the intelligence community, and many more. What inspired these people? What drew them to this work? How did they overcome adversity and failure? And what are the lessons for our country and our democracy as we move forward? These captivating stories exemplify what is best about our nation: integrity, civility, service, humility, and collective responsibility.
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Episodes
  • Robert S. Mueller III: The Director (Part 2)
    Feb 3 2021
    Robert S. Mueller III – Bob Mueller – is an American hero. Though best known as the sixth Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and as the Special Counsel that led the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, the story of Bob’s public service starts half a century earlier.As recounted in the first episode, Bob was born in Manhattan and raised in Princeton, New Jersey. The oldest of five children, and the only boy, he was a star three sport athlete in high school and excelled in the classroom and on the lacrosse fields of Princeton, where he went to college. Following the death of a Princeton teammate in Vietnam, Bob volunteered for service there. In 1968, after officer training, including graduation from the rigorous Army Ranger School, the Marines deployed Bob to Vietnam. There, as a young second lieutenant, he led a rifle platoon along the Demilitarized Zone. Bob did not fear death in Vietnam – though death was all around him. He feared failure, which meant he had to do all he could to ensure that the young Marines under his command survived the war and made it home.A recipient of the Bronze Star (with valor) and the Purple Heart, Bob returned to the United States after his service in Vietnam and graduated from the University of Virginia School of Law. He became a federal prosecutor in San Francisco, and embarked on a career that would take him to the heights of federal law enforcement in this country, and to the helm of the FBI.This episode – the second part – begins as Bob becomes the Director of the FBI, just a few days before the devastating attacks of 9/11. A meeting with President Bush in the White House on the morning of September 12 dramatically changed Bob’s assessment of what the FBI needed to do to prevent another attack and led to an extensive restructuring of the FBI – one that was not immediately embraced in all corners of the organization.Bob navigated difficult challenges as he led a post 9/11 FBI, including an effort – that he opposed – to split the FBI into two agencies along the lines of Britain’s MI-5 and MI-6. He also forbid FBI special agents from conducting interrogations of terrorist subjects that did not adhere to well established constitutional rules and procedures – a decision that was not particularly popular within certain quarters of the FBI at the time, but that turned out to be wise and prescient. It is fascinating to see the FBI through the eyes of the man who served for 12 years as its Director – the second longest tenure in history – and the only person ever to be nominated as FBI Director by two presidents – George W. Bush and Barack Obama.I should again add a word about what is not in either episode – any detailed discussion of Bob’s work as Special Counsel leading the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. Bob was clear when he testified before Congress about this work and his report, and that the report spoke for itself. He did not opine about his findings and does not do so here, either. One of the things I learned while working for Bob Mueller at the FBI is that you take this decent, honorable, and courageous man at his word. Because he is a man of few words, each word matters a lot and so it is worth listening carefully.Bob shares with host Chuck Rosenberg in this second part (of a two-part interview) the story of his tenure at the FBI, leading it through a challenging and difficult post 9/11 period. *** A postscript: On February 2, 2021, the day before we published this episode, heartbreaking news out of Sunrise, Florida, underscored the sacrifices that men and women who take the oath often make in service to our nation: two FBI special agents, Daniel Alfin, 36, and Laura Schwartzenberger, 43, were killed in the line of duty while serving a court-authorized search warrant in a child predator investigation. Three additional FBI special agents were injured. Bob Mueller spoke in this final Season Four episode of the anguish he felt when FBI special agents – indeed any law enforcement officer – were killed in the line of duty. Though not widely known within the FBI, Bob kept pictures of these fallen heroes in his office during his tenure. Special Agents Alfin and Schwartzenberger avowed the same oath so many of our other guests avowed – to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. On the morning of February 2, 2021, after years of selfless, noble, and honorable service to the FBI and to the nation, they made the ultimate sacrifice. May they rest in peace.***If you have thoughtful feedback on this episode or others, please email us at theoathpodcast@gmail.com.Find the transcript and all our previous episodes at MSNBC.com/TheOath
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    55 mins
  • Carla Hayden: Palace to Knowledge
    Jan 27 2021

    Dr. Carla Hayden is the 14th Librarian of Congress, and the first woman and the first African-American ever to hold that prestigious pose. Born in Tallahassee, Florida, Carla grew up in Queens and in Chicago. Her parents were both talented musicians – her father taught music at Florida A&M University – but Carla, by her own admission, did not have the music gene. What she did have was a love of knowledge and of reading.

    After graduating from Roosevelt University in Chicago, and while looking for work, she became an “Accidental Librarian.” A college friend gave her a lead on a job in a public library. That tip led to a career in librarianship, including a doctorate in library science from the Graduate Library School at the University of Chicago, a teaching post at the University of Pittsburgh School of Information Science, and leadership roles in the public library systems in both Chicago and Baltimore.

    In Baltimore, as Executive Director of the Enoch Pratt Free Library, Carla led that city’s magnificent public library system for almost a quarter of a century and was widely praised – and properly so – for keeping the libraries open in the wake of riots that shook Baltimore in 2015, following the death of Freddie Gray - an African-American - man in police custody.

    In 2016, President Barack Obama nominated Carla to serve as the 14th Librarian of Congress. Upon her confirmation by the Senate, she took over that prestigious post.

    The Library of Congress is a crown jewel. It dates to 1800, and one of its first large acquisitions of books came from the personal library of Thomas Jefferson. Though the Library of Congress was originally housed in the U.S. Capitol Building itself, fires in 1814 and 1851 – the first set by the British, the second, an accident – and a burgeoning collection required that the library move to its own building.

    Today, its astonishing collection is housed in numerous buildings, including the Jefferson Building, which contains the breathtaking Main Reading Room, completed in 1897. The Library of Congress today has more than 171 million items, including 32 million catalogued books in 470 languages, 61 million manuscripts, 15 million photographs, 5 million maps, the papers of 23 presidents, and extraordinarily rare and precious books, including an original Gutenberg Bible and the Lincoln Bible.

    In fact, when Carla Hayden took the oath of office for the post she now holds, she took it on the original Lincoln Bible. She shares with podcast host Chuck Rosenberg a wonderful story about that day, that Bible, her mom, and the oath.

    In 2021, Carla is also leading a new Library-wide initiative, Of the People: Widening the Path, to connect the national library more deeply with Black, Hispanic, Indigenous and other underrepresented communities. To do this, the Library of Congress plans to expand its collections, use technology to enable storytelling, and offer more internship and fellowship opportunities to attract diverse librarians and archivists. The initiative, supported by a $15 million investment from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, will allow the Library of Congress to share a more inclusive story about our contemporary American culture, our historical record and how we understand our past.

    The Library of Congress is a Palace to Knowledge. It is one of the most important cultural institutions in the United States, and in the world. The person privileged to run it is Carla Hayden, the Librarian of Congress.

    If you have thoughtful feedback on this episode or others, please email us at theoathpodcast@gmail.com.

    Find the transcript and all our previous episodes at MSNBC.com/TheOath

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    1 hr and 7 mins
  • Carrie Hessler-Radelet: Choose Optimism
    Jan 20 2021

    Carrie Hessler-Radelet – a native of Michigan and the former Director of the Peace Corps – and her extended family have a remarkable and unique relationship with that storied organization. They hold the distinction of being the only Peace Corps family to have four generations serve as volunteers, including both of her grandparents, her aunt and her nephew. In fact, Carrie’s aunt, Virginia Kirkwood – who served in Turkey and was the 10,000th volunteer – inspired Carrie to join the Peace Corps.

    After her graduation from Boston University, Carrie and her husband served as Peace Corps volunteers in Western Samoa, where they taught at an all-girls school. Her story of their relationship with their host family – Losa and Viane and their nine children – is incredibly moving.

    Part of that story includes a return visit to their host family while Carrie was Director of the Peace Corps – 32 years after she served as a volunteer in Western Samoa. If you want to understand how a volunteer can change lives in a remote corner of the planet, Carrie’s story is illuminating and inspirational.

    The Peace Corps is one the most popular, successful, and admired organizations in America. President John F. Kennedy, shortly after his inauguration in 1961, created the Peace Corps and called on volunteers to immerse themselves in another culture and another community, in every corner of the globe.

    Today, these volunteers (of all ages), work side by side with local leaders, to tackle some of the most difficult and vexing problems on the planet – from health care, to education, to food security, to climate change. The men and women who serve in the Peace Corps are truly among America’s best, representing the best of America.

    In 2014, following her nomination by President Barack Obama, Carrie became the Director of the Peace Corps. As Director, she led an extensive organizational reform effort, most notably to enhance the health and safety of volunteers, including the development of a sexual assault risk reduction and response program. That, she will tell you, had a very personal component to it – as a young volunteer in Western Samoa, Carrie was sexually assaulted. When other victims came forward and shared their own stories with her, Carrie knew that the Peace Corps had to take decisive action to ensure the health and safety of its volunteers around the globe.

    Carrie’s description of the Peace Corps and the stories of service, humility, compassion and dedication among the volunteers – including a story Carrie shares about a volunteer named Peter – are inspirational. Carrie illustrates beautifully, why the Peace Corps plays such a vital role in America and around the world, and why we should always choose optimism.

    If you would like to learn more about this marvelous organization - which celebrates its 60th anniversary on March 1 of this year - you can visit its website at The Peace Corps.

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    1 hr and 18 mins

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