Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.

Christian Right leaders still regularly accuse Democrats of being godless liberals, or some similar phrase. Trump has claimed that no true Christian should be able to vote for a Democrat. But as Kristin Du Mez, who was on the ground at the Democratic National Convention, reports, Christianity and other religions are alive and well among not only the rank and file but the high profile speakers in Chicago this week. Similarly, Jemar Tisby talks about his experience as part of the “Evangelicals for Harris” group, which has been the target of attacks by the Christian Right merely because of its existence. Robert P. Jones also brought in the numbers, emphasizing—despite the Republican stereotypes--that 70% of Democrats identify with some religious tradition. As Jones notes, when Republican activists say the Democratic Party is devoid of Christians, what they really mean is that they are lacking white evangelical Protestant Christians (who only make up 4% of Democrats vs. 30% of Republicans). Jemar, Kristin, and Robby rounded out the show by talking about the different way religion functioned at the Republican vs. Democratic national conventions—weaponized at the former to draw us/them boundaries versus an inclusive image at the latter, emphasizing America as a place where all belong.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E8]

Follow:

The Convocation- convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net

Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

What is the significance of Tim Walz's Midwestern Lutheran Dad Vibe for the 2024 presidential election? In this episode, we talk about what it means to be Lutheran and how Walz upends the old culture war trope of "God, gays, and guns" (he's authentically religious, has long supported LGBTQ+ rights, and both served in the military and is an avid hunter). Together with Kamala Harris's mixed-race identity, interfaith marriage, and blended family, the Harris-Walz ticket promises to redraw the traditional cultural and political fault lines (exhibit 1: A Harris-Walz version of his trademark camo hat has already sold over 25,000 units). Perhaps more importantly, compared to the gilded and testosterone infused Trump-Vance ticket, the democratic duos' identities more closely reflects the beautiful messiness of most everyday Americans' lives.

Follow:

The Convocation - convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones - robertpjones.substack.com

Diana Butler Bass - dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez - kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby - JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E7]