This week Eric & Cobus sit down with Wu Peng, the director-general of the department of African affairs in the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, for his perspective on a wide range of issues that are impacting relations between the two regions.

The conversation also features questions from a trio of experts in China-Africa relations including:

• Gyude Moore, a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development (@gyude_moore)
• Zainab Usman, director of the Africa program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (@MissZeeUsman)
• Aggrey Mutambo, senior diplomatic affairs writer for the Daily Nation and The East African newspaper (@agmutambo)

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Since its inception in 2013, Chinese government officials have insisted that the Belt and Road is solely an economic initiative and does not have any military motivations. But the BRI's civil-military distinction is no longer as clear cut as it used to be. President Xi Jinping himself called for a strong BRI security system to protect China's overseas interests, people and property.

One little-known aspect of the BRI is that much of the overseas construction, particularly ports, must conform to standards that conform to the People's Liberation Army's requirements. So, while today there's little evidence that China is leveraging the BRI for security or military purposes, there are concerns that it is positioning to be able to do so in the future should the need arise.

Daniel Russel, vice president for international security and diplomacy at the New York-based Asia Society Policy Institute, examined the security dimensions of the BRI in a recent paper. Daniel joins Eric & Cobus to discuss what he calls the Belt and Road's "civil-military fusion" in maritime, terrestrial and space environments.

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Watch a discussion with the authors of ASPI's report Weaponizing the Belt and Road Initiative: https://youtu.be/PX5PnnnYrFw

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It's widely believed that Chinese lending to African countries is predominantly done by a few state policy banks, such as the China Exim Bank and the China Development Bank. While that was true in the past, today the situation is far more complicated.

New research found that a diverse array of Chinese creditors are now active in Africa, including commercial banks, state banks, and corporate actors, among many others. And contrary to the popular perception that Chinese lenders are monolithic, the reality is that each of these creditors has very different agendas.

Tianyi Wu, a PhD candidate at the University of Oxford, and Yunnan Chen, a research fellow at ODI Global, join Eric & Cobus to discuss the diversity within the Chinese creditor market and why there are important pros and cons for African governments to consider when they borrow from these commercial banks.

SHOW NOTES:

• ODI Global: China’s creditor diversification in Africa: impacts and challenges of infrastructure debt-financing by Chinese commercial creditors by Tianyi Wu & Yunnan Chen: https://tinyurl.com/yc4v2nec
• Development and Change: The Political Economy of Variations in Energy Debt Financing by Two Chinese Policy Banks in Africa by Tianyi Wu: https://tinyurl.com/3wvnex6e
• Boston University Global Development Policy Center: Back in Action: The Ninth Forum on China-Africa Cooperation Sees Renewed Relations and Development Prospects by Tianyi Wu: https://tinyurl.com/yeyufn5j

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