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Have you ever wondered how to sell a bold idea in the boardroom? Not just an idea different from what your organisation usually tends to do, but a really bold one that breaks ground in your industry? What does it take? What do you need?

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses selling bold ideas in the boardroom with Dr Andy Palmer CMG, former COO at Nissan and President & Group CEO of Aston Martin. Known as “the Godfather of EVs." Today, he is a turnaround specialist stepping in as Interim CEO / Executive Chair at Optare/Switch Ltd, PodPoint plc and Brill Power Ltd.

“More than anything else, if you want to get on, then you got to work hard.”
Andy credits hard work as the key to his success, acknowledging the sacrifices required. While his family enjoyed the benefits of his career, it came at a cost to time spent with them. Talent and education matter, but perseverance drives leadership.

“What do I need to understand that would allow me to solve that problem?”
Andy’s interdisciplinary experiences and deep industry exposure contributed to his achievements. His work on the Nissan LEAF taught him the importance of the "three Cs" in battery technology: chemistry, control, and cooling, shaping his focus on zero-emission solutions.

“When the whole company is essentially against you, how important air cover is!”
Selling the LEAF to Nissan’s board was tough—many favoured hybrids. Andy proposed skipping hybrids for fully electric vehicles. CEO Carlos Ghosn’s support was pivotal, providing Andy the "air cover" to push his bold vision.

“Being a CEO should be about leadership, but there's so much about corporate governance that sort of forces you to be safe.”
Andy reflects on the cautious nature of modern corporate governance, which can stifle innovation. He calls on non-executive directors to back CEOs willing to take calculated risks and pursue groundbreaking ideas.

“I've always been very happy to be the lowest IQ in the room.”
For bold leadership, Andy values diverse, multidisciplinary teams, effective communication, and empathy. He believes leaders must inspire confidence, even among sceptics, to gain support for their vision.

The three top takeaways from our conversation for effective boards are:

1. Find something you love and can be passionate about in your career.

2. Education is more than just studying a particular subject - academia is about personal growth. So you've got to know a particular discipline well and build your skill sets in other areas, like finance and communication.

3. Ultimately, we all work with people, and your ability to build empathy and sell something rather than tell something is important.

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Every year, the world's preeminent leadership advisory firm, Egon Zehnder, surveys CEOs to identify issues and challenges they face and how they deal with them. In this podcast, we highlight key findings and discuss the implications for CEOs and Nomination Committees challenged to align on the search criteria for CEOs

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses how to lead through complexity with Dr Nadine Rinck, a partner in Egon Zehnder's Munich office. She heads Egon Zehnder’s infrastructure sector in EMEA and focuses on board advisory and CEO succession across sectors.

“95% of the CEOs expect groundbreaking systemic changes in the next decade”
Nadine shares that 95% of CEOs anticipated groundbreaking systemic changes in the next decade. The study also identified the top five critical challenges for CEOs: talent acquisition and development, AI adoption and impact, market disruptions, geopolitical instability and climate change/ecological impact. Nadine highlights that these challenges are not isolated, and their interconnected nature makes them even more difficult to navigate.

“The world is currently moving from complicated to complex”
Nadine explains that complexity introduces challenges for which no clear solution exists, no matter how much effort or money is invested. The world is shifting from being merely complicated to truly complex. This shift brings heightened uncertainty and often fear among teams and stakeholders.

“What can I do to make my CEO become better and support him or her in navigating this complexity?”
Nadine emphasises that navigating complexity does not mean CEOs must solve every problem themselves or adopt a hierarchical approach. Instead, CEOs are turning to specific sources for advice and support when tackling complex challenges. However, a surprising gap exists in how often CEOs engage independent board members or chairs for guidance. Only 17% consult their independent board members and just 13% turn to their chairs for advice.

“Leaders will need to develop adaptive abilities”
Nadine acknowledges that tackling today’s challenges requires a fundamental shift - a complete update of the “operating system” of leadership. For future CEOs, this means transforming their leadership identity and focusing on emotional intelligence and personal growth. She outlines three meta-competencies that form the foundation for adaptive leadership.

The first is self-awareness, which requires the ability to self-reflect and be brutally honest with oneself. The second meta-competency is relational capability, which includes building trust, forming networks, and genuinely connecting with others. The third meta-competency she describes is adaptability, which requires leaders to let go of outdated beliefs and unlearn no longer beneficial behaviours or strategies.

“Take people out of their comfort zones and see them in different settings and environments”
Nadine emphasises that while a candidate’s CV and experience remain critical, boards (and particularly nomination committees) must go beyond traditional criteria to understand behaviours and personalities for internal talent and CEO succession pipelines, building relationships with potential candidates much earlier in their careers, long before the formal selection process begins.

The three top takeaways for effective boards from our conversation are the three meta-competencies to help CEOs navigate complexities:

1. Self-awareness

2. Relational capabilities

3. Adaptability.

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There are many different types of crises, and how boards deal with them, so it is prudent to be aware of typical mistakes, what works, and what boards can do to deal well with these situations. Are there any ‘golden rules’ that can serve as a starting point to prepare a board and ensure effectiveness and performance in a crisis?

In this podcast, Dr Sabine Dembkowski, Founder and Managing Partner of Better Boards, discusses crisis and the board with Barbara Lambert, a professional Board Member who chairs or is a member of the Audit, Risk and Nomination Committees. Her current and past mandates include Banque Pictet & Cie SA, Deutsche Börse AG, Implenia AG, Merck KgaA, Synlab AG and UBS Switzerland. Barbara spent 20 years at Arthur Andersen/Ernst & Young as a senior partner and Head of the Audit practice for banks and insurance. In 2008, she started as Head of Internal Audit at Pictet Group in Geneva and became a member of the Management Board as Group Chief Risk Officer.

“A crisis coming from external events has more often a greater speed … and internal crises are more likely to be hidden and evolve gradually”
Barbara reflects on her extensive experience managing crises over four decades, having identified clear patterns that emerge in such situations.

“I wish it was really a once-in-a-lifetime experience”
Barbara describes one of the most critical mistakes she has witnessed boards make during a crisis - underestimating the situation. Overconfidence often leads to a dangerous mindset of "this cannot happen to us," resulting in a failure to engage in proper scenario planning or not considering worst-case scenarios. What starts as a manageable issue can quickly snowball into an uncontrollable avalanche. Barbara cites the collapse of Arthur Andersen, her former employer, where what began as a crisis ultimately ended with the company's demise.

“It starts before the crisis, so the board should know where the company is vulnerable”
Drawing on nearly 40 years of experience in crisis management, Barbara outlines the key practices she has seen boards adopt to navigate crises effectively. Success begins long before a crisis occurs, with boards identifying vulnerabilities and ensuring regular, comprehensive updates on the company’s risk profile. She highlights the value of an early warning system. According to Barbara, a well-prepared, united board can make the difference between crisis recovery and failure.

“I think that there's no miracle, but there's just a solution”
Barbara acknowledges that preparing for crises amidst packed agendas is challenging but insists that the solution lies in prioritising time. Today’s board roles demand significant commitment—in reading documents and engaging deeply with strategic discussions, management, and fellow board members. She highlights how the role of a board member has evolved into a full-time commitment.

The three top takeaways from our conversation are:
1. Crisis management starts before the crisis, so as a board member, you must ensure that the company is prepared with scenarios, contingency plans and a robust risk management framework.
2. Do not overestimate your availability before you accept a new or additional mandate. Honestly, decide if you really have the time to do it.
3. Crises and challenges are here to stay because of the current economic, technological and geopolitical environment. As a board member, you need to show that you can be the solid rock to whom executive management can turn.