Luke Litle talks with Dr. Ursula Wilder about the importance of understanding the psychology of foreign leaders and of ourselves, the psychology of historical figures, and the psychology of deterrence. Dr. Wilder takes us down her career path and offers invaluable advice to students and young professionals in the national security space. We explore the frontiers of the study of psychology as applied to intelligence work, such as the fields of cyber psychology and artificial intelligence. Dr. Wilder is a clinical psychologist at the Central Intelligence Agency, where she has served for 27 years. She’s done operational work with the CIA’s counter-terrorism center, analyzed the psychology of extremists in the DNI’s counter-terrorism center, and has spent considerable time assessing the psychology of world leaders for CIA.

Luke Litle talks with Dr. Mara Karlin about the development of the 2022 National Defense Strategy, various practical approaches to deterring adversaries, recent US security challenges, and potential future global security threats. Dr. Karlin is a professor of practice at SAIS and is the co-lead for the Security, Strategy, and Statecraft focus area. She has served in national security roles for six U.S. secretaries of defense, advising on policies spanning strategic planning, defense budgeting, the future of conflict, and regional affairs involving the Middle East, Europe, and Asia. Most recently, she served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Strategy, Plans, and Capabilities, leading the development and implementation of the 2022 National Defense Strategy, Nuclear Posture Review, and Missile Defense Review.

Days after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, new in office, gave the now famous Zeitenwende speech in which he proclaimed a dramatic turn in German foreign policy and national security policy in response to Russia’s full-scale aggression. The speech generated a lot of discussions and, sometimes, unrealistic optimism. Two years later, Germany has been at the forefront of supporting Ukraine militarily and economically, but as the war has turned into a war of attrition, Germany is still a long way from the ambitious undertaking of Zeitenwende and divided over the extent to which to support Ukraine.

In this episode, Jeff Rathke, the President of the American-German Institute, Washington’s only think tank focusing exclusively on Germany and U.S.-German relations, discusses with Martin Makaryan Germany’s role in the security architecture of Europe and within NATO, the practical implications of Zeitenwende, the war in Ukraine, and what the future holds for U.S.-German relations and Germany’s new role in Europe.

This episode was recorded by Martin Makaryan and produced by Luke Litle and Andrew Whelan.