(This season contains spoilers for the show “Severance”- season 1 aired in 2022 on Apple)

How might someone heal from a coercive relationship or high demand group? How can we identify fascism and fight tyranny and why must we? How can we respond when escape is off the table? When trauma severs the mind from the body, what are the pros and cons of “top down” vs “bottom up” healing modalities? How can we discern when “wellness” isn’t safe? How is absurdity a hallmark of collapse?

Kristyn with a Why chats with her teacher and mentor Carmen Spagnola about disorganized attachment, cult tactics, fascism, “wellness,” and collapse through the lens of Severance.

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0-11:14 Intro to episode

11:14-18:00: Intro to Carmen

18:00-31:51: Petey’s Protocol- How to heal from high demand groups

31:51-45:31: The disorganized field of Lumon- How fascism depends on cult tactics of hijacking your nervous system

45:31-58:44: When Mark sculpts a tree/When “wellness” isn’t safe- Somatics and “top down” vs “bottom up” healing modalities

58:44-1:08:40: Severance is absurd and so is Collapse- "We are in the Bread and Circus Phase"

1:08:40-1:21:22: a liberated future for Helly in Season 2, collectively imagining a better future.

1:21:22-end: If you enjoyed this interview, you can preorder Carmen’s next book!/ Outro

Scene Links—------------------------

Wellness Session

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Grateful for all the learning and inspiration alluded to in today’s episode:

PreOrder Carmen Spagnola’s book here

Alexandra Stein’s book: Terror, Love and Brainwashing: Attachment in Cults and Totalitarian Systems

Timothy Snyder’s Book: On Tyranny

As always:----------------------------------

Thankful for the musical inspiration for the theme song:

Hadestown by Anais Mitchell, specifically “Our Lady of the Underground” and Orpheus’ Song

“Hedwig’s Theme” by John Williams

Shout out for the artistic assistance of:

Matt Schubbe (Logo)

Kevin Carlow (Music and sound editing)