In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, East Forest joins to discuss several aspects at the intersection of music and psychedelics, including how he created the music that so many have used when facilitating psychedelic journeys. East Forest’s latest project, a feature length documentary film called Music For Mushrooms, follows him through the psychedelic renaissance on a mission to pair music with psychedelics to bring about transformative healing to a world in crisis.

In this conversation, East Forest discusses how he first got started making music for psychedelic journeys and the considerations that go into curating the right sound to best support these types of deep inner experiences. He emphasizes the importance of avoiding music that sounds overly sentimental and lacks the depth and richness important for effective psychedelic exploration. He also discusses the importance of maintaining the container, whether in the context of psychedelic facilitation or purely music-focused ceremonies, and suggested that sternness and fortitude have an important function in this context. In closing, East Forest suggests that music is so powerful because of the way it is able to be a point of connection to integrate experiences and bring people together.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Composing soundtracks for psychedelic journeys with different substances
• Integrating nature sounds into compositions
• Flow states and music
• Bringing live elements of music and sound into a psychedelic ceremony
• Singing as a regulating technique during a psychedelic journey
• The intersection of music, technology, and psychedelics

Quotes:

“If we look at psychedelic experiences and ceremonies from indigenous use, all of them that I know of were guided by music.” [3:16]

“I think it’s more the intention behind the music. I don’t think there’s a particular thing you have to do or not do, but I don’t think you can just play any music. So I think it’s the intention of the music and the intention of the room and the intention of the participants… There has to be an invitation on all of those fronts for that doorway to open.” [16:11]

“I think we’re looking for music and for space that is supportive of that through-line and gives us enough time to be in a process—and that’s another advantage of having these longform, intentional, bespoke songs because they are probably going to give more of that time and space for these processes to occur.” [32:43]

Links:

East Forest’s website

East Forest on Instagram

East Forest on Tik Tok

Music for Mushrooms documentary website

Music for Mushrooms Official Documentary Soundtrack

Winter Solstice Retreat at Esalen

Music for Psychedelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Eric Sienknecht, PsyD joins to discuss the roles of music in psychedelic sessions. Dr. Sienknecht is a licensed clinical psychologist and co-founder and lead trainer at Polaris Insight Center, a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy clinic and training center. He has worked as sub-investigator and study therapist on the Lykos-sponsored MDMA-AT clinical trials for PTSD and currently is also a supervisor and educator in MDMA-AT for various clinical trial sites. Dr. Sienknecht has a deep interest in the role and use of music in ketamine and MDMA sessions and specializes in curating playlists for psychedelic experiences.

In this conversation, Dr. Sienknecht discusses how he first realized the importance of music in psychedelic experiences. He shares insights on how different genres and moods of music may be better suited to certain phases of the psychedelic experience and how he works individually with clients to better tailor a session playlist to their personal taste. Dr. Sienknecht even discusses how to strategically include shadow elements in a playlist to facilitate a client going deeper in their journey. In closing, he emphasizes how the intersection of psychedelic experiences and music remains understudied with only a few book chapters and articles dealing directly with the topic, so there is much yet to learn and explore in this exciting niche.

In this episode you'll hear:

• What is universal vs what is individual when it comes to music and psychedelics
• Why Dr. Sienknecht avoids music with lyrics in a participant’s native language for psychedelic sessions
• The research on different genres of music for psychedelic journeys
• Balancing planning music in advance and adapting to the specific pace and mood of the client’s experience
• Utilizing nature sounds alongside or within music during psychedelic sessions
• Binaural beats and brainwaves

Quotes:

“There’s generally better tracks to use for the opening phase of a [psychedelic] journey, for the peak phase of a journey [etc], and there’s been some research into that as well.” [6:05]

“Taste is so subjective… Knowing your client and talking with them beforehand about their taste and letting that information really inform how you create the playlist is really important.” [27:02]

“One of the benefits of doing psychedelic therapy is that you can surrender control over elements of set and setting—not that those aren’t negotiable and ongoingly negotiable, as they should be—but there’s something about [the fact that the therapist] has got the music taken care of, the room set up, everything is in its right place. All I have to do is fast from food for a few hours, have my intention, and step into the journey—and that can help someone to really just trust and surrender more into the experience.” [30:20]

Links:

Integral Psychedelic Therapy edited by Jason A. Butler, Genesee Herzberg, and Richard Louis Miller

Dr. Sienknecht on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center website

Music for Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy Sessions training with Dr. Sienknecht at Polaris Insight Center

Previous episodes: Psychedelics and Nature: The Symbiotic Relationship with Dr. Sam Gandy

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Giorgia Caspani, PhD joins to discuss the intersection of psychedelics and the gut microbiome and ramifications for future personalized medicine. Dr. Caspani is a neuroscientist and computational biologist working at the intersection of gut microbiome, psychedelics and personalized medicine.

In this conversation, Dr. Caspani discusses her research published in the article “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis.” She shares what we know about how psychedelics impact the gut microbiome from initial studies and what questions remain unanswered. She draws connections between the way the gut microbiome metabolizes SSRI drugs and how serotonin impacts the gut microbiota to hypothesize the potential ways psychedelics interact with this complex living system. In closing, Dr. Caspani discusses the possibility of predicting responses to psychedelic treatments using data from the microbiota, and the research currently happening to make this possible.

In this episode you'll hear:

• How human beings and our gut microbiome co-evolved and the benefits achieved through this symbiotic relationship
• The correlation between the gut microbiome and stress levels
• The effects of psychedelics on immune responses
• Why personalized medicine may be a more effective approach for treating depression
• How personalized medicine could help make psychedelic therapies more accessible and effective

Quotes:

“Without our gut microbes… We wouldn't be able to really perform a lot of the metabolic functions that we rely on as humans.” [4:26]

“The gut microbiome is different in every person—it’s very unique. And so every person carries this unique microbial signature that can potentially map out to all of the treatment options that we already have available; it’s just a matter of understanding and identifying markers that can predict which patient will benefit from a specific drug.” [18:22]

“[We hypothesize that] the gut microbiome shapes individual responses to psychedelic treatment. And so if that [hypothesis] is correct, if that is true, we could potentially target the microbiome, change the composition of the gut microbiome like we wanted to, to be able to maximize the effectiveness of these [psychedelic] drugs.” [25:14]

Links:

Dr. Caspani’s article, “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis”

Dr. Caspani on LinkedIn

Dr. Caspani on X

Onaya Science website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui