In this final, 3rd part of our interview with Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock, Glen and April learn more about Preston’s views regarding the importance of living and talking about a positive alternative to the negatives he sees in society. Using key points from author Parker Palmer, Preston talks about the need for more public spaces and opportunities for citizens in our society, even allowing that “more pubs” could be one part of that expansion of public opportunities. Continuing his emphasis on living Jesus’ Great Commandments, Preston provides advice that he also as consistent with Braver Angels’ approach to addressing political polarization, stating: "we can't speak the truth to people who we don't love" and "If we don't learn to love sinners, we'll find it hard to find anyone to love." Preston would most like to be remembered in a manner consistent with what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated based on the parable of the Good Samaritan: not merely helping folks on the side of the road who are in need, but also tending to the road and what about that road led to so many roadside casualties. We conclude our interview with a personal story he tells about how a Black pastor he once spoke with changed his life and his world view in 45 seconds.

In this second of three episodes, April and Glen talk further with Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock. Preston goes into some detail about his concerns with Christian nationalism and the negative impact associated with this view. He sees significant inconsistencies with what he feels the Cristian message calls us to do, and he describes several of those concerns. Preston explores the potential for negative impact of following that extreme and distorted version of Christianity on our culture and politics. In a broader way, he sees all of us as being constantly “catechized” or influenced in society through our culture. Such an environment makes it tough to change peoples' views solely through a couple of weekly visits to church. One key approach to countering that potentially negative or misguided influence is for each of us to focus on and practice “the good,” modeling a positive alternative to the negative elements in our society.

In this first of 3 parts of our interview with Dr. Preston Clegg, pastor of the 2nd Baptist church in Little Rock, Glen and April explore with Preston his life experiences, values, and his active work in the community. Preston is an active advocate for racial justice and for loving treatment of all members of the community, especially those who are vulnerable. Because of the values that he sees as essential to the Christian faith, Preston describes his ministry as "to summon people to higher ground." Preston also explains how his congregation is not part of the more widely recognized Southern Baptist branch but rather is affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Using the Christian great commandments as his inspiration, Preston traces how this requirement of radical love led to his current political views. An important observation for Preston is how too many in Christianity these days are becoming "entangled" rather than engaged in the world, which can cause difficulty in lovingly speaking out on political matters. As a result, he strongly advocates an appropriate separation of church and state and in speaking truth to those in power.

April and Glen continue their conversation with Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer for the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, in this second part of their interview with Joni. April and Glen hear how Joni emphasizes relationships in her work, though her efforts have recently become more difficult, as many in government have become more motivated by tribal or party considerations in their decision-making and sometimes seem less amenable to respectful and open discussions. The current difficulties of finding compromise on many issues are worsened by partisan or external threats, which may lead them to vote counter to their values or beliefs. In some ways, she sees political struggles as having moved from a win/lose to a life/death perception in their intensity. Nevertheless, working in a political arena requires respect for the influence of power. Joni describes her ways of coping and persevering in her efforts, which include her faith, a willingness to listen, and a commitment to civility and respect. Joni offers advice for avoiding polarizing behavior in interactions with others, as well as offering suggestions for how citizens can become involved in positive ways that make a contribution to society. Finally, Joni recounts her family’s joking about her frequent visits to “old stuff” when viewing historic sites in DC. Those visits, however, help her to maintain hope in the resilience of our American system, which has experienced many prior struggles, yet continues to survive.

In the first part of our conversation with Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer for the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, April and Glen hear from Joni how she came to work in advocacy for UA-Little Rock with local, state and federal government for so many years. Joni discusses some highlights in her work, including the university’s Nanotechnology Center's success in securing a key role in development of creating bone for medical uses. As Joni traces changes she has seen over the years in her advocacy work, she notes the apparent change in how many in government have come to devalue the importance of higher education. She notices with disappointment how much more distrustful many in government have come to view those in higher education, with funding suffering as a result. She also observes how in today’s climate, “diverse viewpoints have become divisive views.” In one example Joni cites, she describes works to explain the reality and benefits of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion initiatives (DEI) to those in government and politics, despite DEI having recently been met with much skepticism or hostility.

In this second part of our conversation with Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator, former professor, and current lobbyist, April and Glen explore Ann's views on effective strategies for working with government officials for the public good in an environment where civility and collaboration are not a given. She argues that moderation and compromise still hold promise in this environment because "parties are ultimately pragmatic - they want to win." Ann discusses avenues for citizen involvement that can influence not just electoral outcomes, but also legislation. The conversation with Ann includes her thoughts on how we can bridge political divisions (even in our families) and concludes with an anecdotal story of a legislative colleague who, in his passion, broke with legislative norms and an unwritten code of civility toward her Republican caucus on the floor of the House.

Glen and April welcome Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator and former professor at UA-Little Rock, for a conversation. Ann is currently a lobbyist with Capitol Consulting Firm. In this first part of our chat, Ann shares her early exposure as a child to politics and its continuing influence on her career choices and life. In spite of coming of age and getting elected in one of the most solidly Democrat states in the nation at the time, Ann then and since has consistently embraced a more Republican worldview. Ann describes how, as a state representative, she tried to work across divisions but found that even with support from those in her party, legislation sometimes failed due to the opposition party’s reluctance to yield a win. She describes this period of her career and the challenges faced by the minority Republican caucus as it eked forward from 28 out of 100 to the barest of majorities possible, 51 out of 100 in 2013. She shares the frustrating realities that made this kind of work difficult and her perceptions of the current tensions within Arkansas Republican party groups. As an Arkansas lobbyist/consultant now, with a large Republican majority in the General Assembly, Ann discusses the job of influencing legislative outcomes where conflicting pressures are at play. She describes with pride one project she engaged with that resulted in successful infusion of much needed resources for an especially vulnerable group of children in the state.

In the second part of our interview with Dr. Phillip Fletcher, an ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder, April and Glen explore his political leanings, which can vary, as he finds some commonality with both Reds and Blues, depending on the issue. While he works readily with people all across the spectrum, there are points beyond which he will not collaborate, especially if they are incompatible with his "north star" of respecting the dignity and worth of every human. He also asserts that "human beings want to be better" and he tries to help them accomplish this through his active work in the community. Finally, he talks about how Arkansas somewhat surprisingly wound up being his home, despite his initial time in California and the culture shock he experienced the first time he encountered a specific Arkansas cultural touchstone.