In this conversation, Joel Evan interviews Forrest Smith, founder of Kineon, about the transformative potential of red light therapy and its applications in health and wellness. They discuss Forrest's journey from building startups to focusing on impactful health technology, the science behind red light therapy, and the differences between laser and LED technologies. The conversation also explores the importance of dosing in achieving physiological outcomes, the expansion of Kineon's product line to include gut health and vagus nerve stimulation, and the future of health technology innovations. Takeaways Forrest's journey began with a desire to make an impact rather than just seeking commercial success. Kineon's mission is to improve the quality of life for as many people as possible. Red light therapy can help reduce reliance on pharmaceuticals for pain management. The technology behind Kineon's device is based on advanced laser technology, making it more effective than traditional LED devices. Dosing is crucial for achieving optimal outcomes in red light therapy. Kineon is expanding its product line to address gut health and vagus nerve stimulation. The vagus nerve plays a significant role in connecting gut health to brain function. Future products will include advanced technology for measuring brain function and metabolic health. Forrest emphasizes the importance of testing and feedback in product development. Kineon aims to bridge the gap between technology and health to create meaningful outcomes. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Red Light Therapy and Kinney 01:06 From Commercial Success to Impactful Mission 04:26 The Science Behind Red Light Therapy 06:16 Understanding the Technology: Laser vs. LED 11:48 Dosing and Physiological Impact of Light Therapy 15:53 Exploring Systemic Benefits of Red Light Therapy 19:45 Future Innovations: Gut Health and Vagus Nerve Stimulation 29:07 Looking Ahead: Brain Health and New Technologies