In this Co-management Commons show I am in conversation with Trevor Swerdfager, from the University of Waterloo and former senior bureaucrat with the Government of Canada. Trevor had a long career in public service and through this experience, he gained unique insights into how co-management agreements are developed and implemented from the bureaucratic perspective. Trevor also spent time in private industry and academia, providing additional perspectives. In this wide-ranging discussion, Trevor shares his thoughts on co-management models, challenges, and opportunities based on his diverse career path. He offers valuable insights for both practitioners and students of co-management and Indigenous resource governance. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 11:00 - Co-management in government with a focus on political staff and senior bureaucrats 20:00 - We advise, ministers decide 21:00 - Decision making process 31:15 - Co-management policy vacuum 41:30 - Data sharing and transparency 46:40 - Thoughts on the future of co-management Additional reading: T. Swerdfager and D. Armitage. 2023. Co-management at a crossroads in Canada: issues, opportunities, and emerging challenges in fisheries and marine contexts. FACETS. 8: 1-10. https://doi.org/10.1139/facets-2022-0217