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The string of Israeli successes against Hezbollah — culminating in the killing of Hassan Nasrallah — last September was partly the work of Israeli military and intelligence agencies infiltrating Hezbollah’s networks, planting booby-trapped communication devices, and tracking the leaders’ movements to dismantle the group's military capabilities. This campaign crippled Hezbollah by also destroying thousands of missiles and disrupting its leadership, delivering a blow to Iran’s regional strategy.

An investigative report recently published by the New York Times delves into how deeply Israeli intelligence had penetrated Hezbollah ranks. Our guest today is one of the report’s authors: Ronen Bergman.

Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine and Senior Correspondent for Military and Intelligence Affairs for Yedioth Ahronoth, an Israeli daily. Ronen has won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on the Israel-Hamas war and the pre-war intelligence failures.

The New York Times’ investigative report, co-authored by Ronen: “Behind the Dismantling of Hezbollah: Decades of Israeli Intelligence” - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-nasrallah-assassination-intelligence.html

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Last Thursday, The New York Times published a long investigative piece titled “Israel Loosened Its Rules to Bomb Hamas Fighters, Killing Many More Civilians”. The article tries to identify an unprecedented shift in the IDF’s military strategy and rules of engagement during its response to Hamas’s October 7 invasion, and reports on the impact on Palestinian civilians, including a substantial increase in risk to Palestinian civilians.

To discuss the ethics of Israel fighting a just war justly, to help us unpack and respond to the key charges in the Times investigation, and to briefly reflect on the (post-presidential) legacy of President Jimmy Carter, we welcome back to the podcast, Yossi Klein Halevi, who is a senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem. Yossi has written a number of books, including his latest, "Letters to My Palestinian Neighbor," which was a New York Times bestseller. He has written for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Times of Israel. He is co-host of "For Heaven's Sake" podcast.

Yossi Klein Halevi's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IXOA04

Articles discussed in this episode:

“Israel Loosened Its Rules to Bomb Hamas Fighters, Killing Many More Civilians” https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/26/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-bombing.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&tgrp=sty&pvid=1FCD1780-A3CA-40EB-BBFF-99870A87D46E

“Teens forced to perform sexual acts on each other: Report to UN details Hamas torture” https://www.timesofisrael.com/teens-forced-to-perform-sexual-acts-on-each-other-report-to-un-details-hamas-torture/

“Jimmy Carter, friend of dictators and champion of terrorists”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/3181150/jimmy-carter-friend-dictators-and-champion-terrorists/

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On thousands of street corners in Israel today, there are banners that read: “bring the hostages back from the darkness.” It’s excruciating to think that this is the second Hanukkah since October 7th with hostages still in Gaza.

For today’s episode, we will be replaying an episode from a conversation I had with Haviv Rettig Gur during the 4th day of the pause in fighting during the last (and, to date, only) hostage deal, while hostages were being returned to Israel, back in November 2023. As Haviv put it in this conversation, it had been the first time since October 7 that he could “breathe”. It’s a feeling that we can pray will be alive again soon.

This replay episode is one way to reflect on where we were a year ago, and where we are now. Today, Hamas is only more desperate and Israel’s geopolitical and military position in the Middle East has never been stronger. There is a lot of analysis in this conversation with Haviv that is relevant to the hostage negotiations occurring right now.