Lenny and Leslie are guests on Brave Little State from Vermont Public Radio, where the audience helps decide what stories VPR covers. On this episode, Brave Little State journeys into the weird world of Vermont's favorite jam band to answer the question: "Why does everyone love Phish?" The Blackberry Jams crew were on hand to help get to the bottom of this query.

Bassist, composer, bandleader, and educator Dezron Douglas has established himself as a major force in contemporary creative music. A protégé of the great Jackie McLean, the Downbeat Magazine 2019 Rising Star joined Trey Anastasio Band in 2021, and against all odds pulled off a tour for the ages. Leslie and Lenny sit down with Dez and chat it up as the empire crashes around them. 

Calling all Blackberry Phans Stans! Lenny and Leslie are at the end of the first of many legs of the Blackberry Jams journey. They take some time to reflect on the entire experience and on the reception of the show by the scene, Black phans and non-phans alike. They also share some of what they found most surprising, funny, and challenging about the first season of their groundbreaking podcast and leave us with a tantalizing hint of what may come in a possible second season.

Leslie and Lenny dream about what a perfect show would look like. They don’t know if you want cocoa and shea dispensers in the bathroom or if you want to to see Pete Shapiro as a bathroom attendant during all Black History Month, but they sure love dreaming together. They discuss their favorite Phish shows pre-2016 and what performances have kept them going throughout the last 5 years of intense organizing. Finally, they tease a Blackberry Jams festival! *Show note* We mention Dave Chapelle's ‘Block Party’ for reference once. Transphobia repackaged as the battle for free speech is an old trick of white supremacy and Lenny and Leslie ain't falling for that shit.

Lenny and Leslie talk about the effects of stereotypes on the Black community and its deleterious repercussions on the psyche, heart, and real lives of Black peoples. They start with a scene at Phish's New Year’s run which launches organizer Leslie Mac on a deep dive about the dangerous power of stereotypes. One piece of the puzzle is how systematized white supremacy is sold as "American culture” and its long shadow narrated as an American tradition with a power structure that runs from education, music, vocation, compounded trauma of children, media, shakedown street, to Madison Square Garden. Plus Lenny and Leslie guess Phish’s Halloween Costume!

When the circus does come to town, no one knows what to expect, particularly Black Phan’s. Lenny and Leslie take time to interview two members of the Black phish Phan community, and share some of the stories shared with them by Black Phan’s on the 888-Phan-Jam call line. 

In 1994 Spring Grateful Dead tour Lenny was fascinated by the “Disco Bus”. This band of intrepid travelers would pull up to a lot, spin a set, throw a giant dance party, feed the kids, maybe puff you out, hook you up with some new clothes, and do it all over again 150 miles later. This is the same concept Lenny uses at protest and in liberation work today. It's a theory called Mutual Aid and Lenny and Leslie are convinced this is what the Jam Band community can be at its best.

This episode is all about the counter culture that created the jam band scene, and the political, economic, cultural, and historical factors that are the muse for the art, the jams, even the clothing we wear. There is tension between anti-racism work and lifestyle, and to move the needle forward in the community we love, Leslie and Lenny believe it must be reminded of its revolutionary roots.